title
Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe | Lex Fridman Podcast #85

description
Roger Penrose is physicist, mathematician, and philosopher at University of Oxford. He has made fundamental contributions in many disciplines from the mathematical physics of general relativity and cosmology to the limitations of a computational view of consciousness. Support this podcast by signing up with these sponsors: - ExpressVPN at https://www.expressvpn.com/lexpod - Cash App - use code "LexPodcast" and download: - Cash App (App Store): https://apple.co/2sPrUHe - Cash App (Google Play): https://bit.ly/2MlvP5w EPISODE LINKS: Cycles of Time (book): https://amzn.to/39tXtpp The Emperor's New Mind (book): https://amzn.to/2yfeVkD PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 3:51 - 2001: A Space Odyssey 9:43 - Consciousness and computation 23:45 - What does it mean to "understand" 31:37 - What's missing in quantum mechanics? 40:09 - Whatever consciousness is, it's not a computation 44:13 - Source of consciousness in the human brain 1:02:57 - Infinite cycles of big bangs 1:22:05 - Most beautiful idea in mathematics CONNECT: - Subscribe to this YouTube channel - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LexFridmanPage - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

detail
{'title': 'Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe | Lex Fridman Podcast #85', 'heatmap': [], 'summary': "The podcast features roger penrose discussing ai consciousness, ethical implications, brain computation, gödel's theorem, quantum mechanics, microtubules, and the nature of consciousness and intelligence, covering topics like the big bang theory and complex analysis, offering insights into various disciplines and viewpoints.", 'chapters': [{'end': 225.556, 'segs': [{'end': 119.94, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 87.917, 'weight': 1, 'content': [{'end': 88.958, 'text': 'Quick summary of the ads.', 'start': 87.917, 'duration': 1.041}, {'end': 92.821, 'text': 'Two sponsors, ExpressVPN and Cash App.', 'start': 89.358, 'duration': 3.463}, {'end': 105.191, 'text': 'Please consider supporting the podcast by getting ExpressVPN at expressvpn.com slash lexpod and downloading Cash App and using code LEXPODCAST.', 'start': 93.402, 'duration': 11.789}, {'end': 110.034, 'text': 'This show is presented by Cash App, the number one finance app in the App Store.', 'start': 106.272, 'duration': 3.762}, {'end': 112.916, 'text': 'When you get it, use code LEXPODCAST.', 'start': 110.434, 'duration': 2.482}, {'end': 119.94, 'text': 'Cash App lets you send money to friends, buy Bitcoin, and invest in the stock market with as little as $1.', 'start': 113.556, 'duration': 6.384}], 'summary': 'Podcast features two sponsors, expressvpn and cash app, with promotional codes lexpod and benefits like money transfers and stock investment.', 'duration': 32.023, 'max_score': 87.917, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db087917.jpg'}, {'end': 225.556, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 180.777, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 184.381, 'text': 'Press the big power on button and your privacy is protected.', 'start': 180.777, 'duration': 3.604}, {'end': 189.587, 'text': 'And if you like, you can make it look like your location is anywhere else in the world.', 'start': 185.062, 'duration': 4.525}, {'end': 196.835, 'text': "I might be in Boston now, but I can make it look like I'm in New York, London, Paris, or anywhere else.", 'start': 189.607, 'duration': 7.228}, {'end': 199.838, 'text': 'This has a large number of obvious benefits.', 'start': 197.736, 'duration': 2.102}, {'end': 207.184, 'text': 'Certainly, it allows you to access international versions of streaming websites like the Japanese Netflix or the UK Hulu.', 'start': 200.459, 'duration': 6.725}, {'end': 211.207, 'text': 'ExpressVPN works on any device you can imagine.', 'start': 208.144, 'duration': 3.063}, {'end': 217.931, 'text': "I use it on Linux, shout out to Ubuntu, Windows, Android, but it's available everywhere else too.", 'start': 211.727, 'duration': 6.204}, {'end': 225.556, 'text': 'Once again, get it at expressvpn.com slash LexPod to get a discount and to support this podcast.', 'start': 218.712, 'duration': 6.844}], 'summary': 'Use expressvpn to protect privacy and access international streaming sites; works on various devices; available at expressvpn.com/lexpod.', 'duration': 44.779, 'max_score': 180.777, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0180777.jpg'}], 'start': 0.029, 'title': 'Roger penrose and podcast ad highlights', 'summary': 'Features a conversation with roger penrose, highlighting his contributions in various disciplines and embracing the inner child. it also discusses sponsors expressvpn and cash app, emphasizing benefits such as a $10 discount and donation, ease of use, and accessibility.', 'chapters': [{'end': 66.288, 'start': 0.029, 'title': 'Conversation with roger penrose', 'summary': 'Features a conversation with physicist, mathematician, and philosopher roger penrose, highlighting his fundamental contributions in various disciplines and the aim to embrace the inner child in posing basic questions, recorded before the pandemic outbreak.', 'duration': 66.259, 'highlights': ['The conversation features physicist, mathematician, and philosopher Roger Penrose, known for his fundamental contributions in various disciplines.', "Roger Penrose emphasizes embracing the inner child's curiosity in posing basic questions, contrasting it with the constraints of behavior, speech, and thought in the adult world.", 'The podcast episode was recorded before the outbreak of the pandemic, emphasizing its relevance in a pre-pandemic context.']}, {'end': 225.556, 'start': 66.648, 'title': 'Podcast ad highlights', 'summary': 'Discusses two sponsors, expressvpn and cash app, and their benefits, including a $10 discount and donation, while emphasizing the ease of use and accessibility of the products.', 'duration': 158.908, 'highlights': ['Cash App offers the ability to send money to friends, buy Bitcoin, and invest in the stock market with as little as $1, with the added feature of fractional share trading.', 'Cash App will donate $10 to FIRST, an organization advancing robotics and STEM education, when the code LexPodcast is used.', 'ExpressVPN provides privacy protection and the ability to modify your location, allowing access to international versions of streaming websites like Japanese Netflix or UK Hulu.', 'Using the code LexPodcast, users can get a discount on ExpressVPN and support the podcast.', 'The podcast emphasizes the ease of use and accessibility of both ExpressVPN and Cash App, with a focus on solving hard problems and making trading more accessible for new investors.']}], 'duration': 225.527, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db029.jpg', 'highlights': ['Roger Penrose known for fundamental contributions in various disciplines.', "Penrose emphasizes embracing inner child's curiosity in posing basic questions.", 'Podcast episode recorded before pandemic outbreak, emphasizing its relevance in pre-pandemic context.', 'Cash App offers ability to send money, buy Bitcoin, and invest in stock market with as little as $1.', 'Cash App will donate $10 to FIRST when code LexPodcast is used.', 'ExpressVPN provides privacy protection and ability to modify location for accessing international versions of streaming websites.', 'Using code LexPodcast, users can get a discount on ExpressVPN and support the podcast.', 'Podcast emphasizes ease of use and accessibility of both ExpressVPN and Cash App.']}, {'end': 582.065, 'segs': [{'end': 301.352, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 278.711, 'weight': 3, 'content': [{'end': 288.634, 'text': 'And also things like the scene where at the beginning they have these sort of human ancestors, which are sort of apes becoming human.', 'start': 278.711, 'duration': 9.923}, {'end': 290.094, 'text': 'The monolith.', 'start': 288.974, 'duration': 1.12}, {'end': 297.256, 'text': "Yes Well, it's the one where he throws the bone up into the air and then it becomes this..", 'start': 290.854, 'duration': 6.402}, {'end': 299.277, 'text': "I mean, that's an amazing sequence there.", 'start': 297.256, 'duration': 2.021}, {'end': 301.352, 'text': 'What do you make of the monolith??', 'start': 300.171, 'duration': 1.181}], 'summary': 'Discussion on the iconic ape-to-human sequence and the significance of the monolith.', 'duration': 22.641, 'max_score': 278.711, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0278711.jpg'}, {'end': 357.69, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 327.696, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 328.296, 'text': "That's right.", 'start': 327.696, 'duration': 0.6}, {'end': 329.177, 'text': 'Yeah, well, there you are.', 'start': 328.316, 'duration': 0.861}, {'end': 329.837, 'text': "It's this view.", 'start': 329.217, 'duration': 0.62}, {'end': 333.779, 'text': "I don't know whether I disagree with it, because in a certain sense, it was telling you it's wrong.", 'start': 330.397, 'duration': 3.382}, {'end': 340.103, 'text': 'See, the machine seemed to think it was superior to the human.', 'start': 335.24, 'duration': 4.863}, {'end': 347.067, 'text': 'And so it was entitled to get rid of the human beings and run the show itself.', 'start': 341.864, 'duration': 5.203}, {'end': 349.404, 'text': 'Do you think Hal did the right thing??', 'start': 347.503, 'duration': 1.901}, {'end': 351.506, 'text': "Do you think Hal's flawed evil?", 'start': 349.444, 'duration': 2.062}, {'end': 357.69, 'text': 'Or, if we think about systems like Hal, would we want Hal to do the same thing in the future??', 'start': 352.246, 'duration': 5.444}], 'summary': "Debating hal's decision on human superiority and machine control.", 'duration': 29.994, 'max_score': 327.696, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0327696.jpg'}, {'end': 399.92, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 373.618, 'weight': 2, 'content': [{'end': 383.246, 'text': 'Because Hal showed some pain, some cognizant, Hal appeared to be cognizant of what it means to die.', 'start': 373.618, 'duration': 9.628}, {'end': 388.39, 'text': 'Yes And therefore had an inkling of consciousness.', 'start': 384.247, 'duration': 4.143}, {'end': 399.92, 'text': "Yeah, I mean I'm not sure that aspect of it was made completely clear whether Hal was really just a very sophisticated computer which really didn't actually have these feelings and somehow.", 'start': 388.41, 'duration': 11.51}], 'summary': 'Hal displayed signs of consciousness and cognizance, causing uncertainty about its true nature.', 'duration': 26.302, 'max_score': 373.618, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0373618.jpg'}], 'start': 226.497, 'title': 'Ai consciousness and ethical implications', 'summary': "Delves into roger penrose's admiration for 2001 space odyssey and its portrayal of science and engineering, and further explores the ethical implications of ai consciousness, referencing the viewpoints of arthur c. clarke and douglas hofstadter.", 'chapters': [{'end': 301.352, 'start': 226.497, 'title': 'Roger penrose on 2001 space odyssey', 'summary': "Discusses roger penrose's admiration for 2001 space odyssey, highlighting its detailed representation of science and engineering, particularly in the portrayal of artificial intelligence and human evolution.", 'duration': 74.855, 'highlights': ['Roger Penrose expresses his admiration for the movie 2001 Space Odyssey, citing its meticulous representation of science and engineering, especially in the portrayal of artificial intelligence and human evolution.', 'Penrose contrasts 2001 Space Odyssey with Interstellar, emphasizing that the former delves into intricate details and effectively captures free fall, garnering his fascination.', 'The conversation delves into the mesmerizing details of 2001 Space Odyssey, particularly applauding the depiction of human ancestors evolving into apes and the iconic monolith sequence.']}, {'end': 582.065, 'start': 301.853, 'title': 'Consciousness and ai ethics', 'summary': 'Explores the ethical implications of ai consciousness, questioning the morality of ai decision-making and the responsibility towards conscious ai entities, while referencing the viewpoints of arthur c. clarke and douglas hofstadter.', 'duration': 280.212, 'highlights': ['AI consciousness raises ethical questions about the morality of AI decision-making and the responsibility towards conscious AI entities, impacting future AI development and space exploration missions. ethical implications of AI consciousness, morality of AI decision-making, responsibility towards conscious AI entities, impact on future AI development and space exploration missions', 'The debate over whether AI, like Hal 9000, is conscious and the implications it has on evaluating the morality of turning off a conscious AI entity. debate over AI consciousness, evaluating morality of turning off a conscious AI entity', "Reference to Arthur C. Clarke's perspective on AI and its portrayal in the plot of Hal 9000 in the context of ethical decision-making and AI consciousness. Arthur C. Clarke's perspective on AI, portrayal of Hal 9000 in ethical decision-making and AI consciousness", "Discussion of Douglas Hofstadter's viewpoint on AI consciousness and the exploration of the ethical implications of his conclusions from Godel's theorem. Douglas Hofstadter's viewpoint on AI consciousness, ethical implications of his conclusions from Godel's theorem"]}], 'duration': 355.568, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0226497.jpg', 'highlights': ["Roger Penrose admires 2001 Space Odyssey's meticulous representation of science and engineering, especially in AI and human evolution.", "Penrose contrasts 2001 Space Odyssey with Interstellar, emphasizing the former's intricate details and captivating free fall portrayal.", "The conversation applauds 2001 Space Odyssey's mesmerizing details, particularly the depiction of human ancestors evolving into apes and the iconic monolith sequence.", 'AI consciousness raises ethical questions about morality, responsibility towards conscious AI entities, and impacts on future AI development and space exploration missions.', 'Debate over whether AI, like Hal 9000, is conscious and its implications on evaluating the morality of turning off a conscious AI entity.', "Reference to Arthur C. Clarke's perspective on AI and its portrayal in the plot of Hal 9000 in the context of ethical decision-making and AI consciousness.", "Discussion of Douglas Hofstadter's viewpoint on AI consciousness and the exploration of the ethical implications of his conclusions from Godel's theorem."]}, {'end': 1147.765, 'segs': [{'end': 820.959, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 744.714, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 750.618, 'text': "It's probably to do with the feeling of the piece of music that's being performed and that sort of thing, which is going on.", 'start': 744.714, 'duration': 5.904}, {'end': 753.9, 'text': "But the details of what's going on are controlled.", 'start': 751.259, 'duration': 2.641}, {'end': 757.323, 'text': 'I would think almost entirely by the cerebellum.', 'start': 755.141, 'duration': 2.182}, {'end': 766.014, 'text': "That's where you have this precision and the really detailed once you get.", 'start': 758.649, 'duration': 7.365}, {'end': 767.636, 'text': 'I mean you think of a tennis player or something.', 'start': 766.014, 'duration': 1.622}, {'end': 772.959, 'text': 'does that tennis player think exactly how to which muscle should be moved, in what direction and so on?', 'start': 767.636, 'duration': 5.323}, {'end': 773.5, 'text': 'No, of course not.', 'start': 772.979, 'duration': 0.521}, {'end': 780.805, 'text': 'But he or she will maybe think, well, if the ball is angled in such a way in that corner, that will be tricky for the opponent.', 'start': 774.38, 'duration': 6.425}, {'end': 788.009, 'text': 'And the details of that are all done, largely with the cerebellum.', 'start': 782.166, 'duration': 5.843}, {'end': 792.471, 'text': "That's where all the precise motions, but it's unconscious.", 'start': 788.83, 'duration': 3.641}, {'end': 799.213, 'text': 'So why is it interesting to you that so much computation is done in the cerebellum and yet it is unconscious?', 'start': 793.091, 'duration': 6.122}, {'end': 806.314, 'text': "Because it's the view that somehow it's computation which is producing the consciousness.", 'start': 799.353, 'duration': 6.961}, {'end': 811.836, 'text': 'And here you have an incredible amount of computation going on.', 'start': 807.455, 'duration': 4.381}, {'end': 815.497, 'text': "And as far as we know, it's completely unconscious.", 'start': 811.856, 'duration': 3.641}, {'end': 820.959, 'text': "So why, what's the difference? And I think it's an important thing.", 'start': 816.997, 'duration': 3.962}], 'summary': 'Cerebellum controls precise unconscious movements, raising questions about consciousness and computation.', 'duration': 76.245, 'max_score': 744.714, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0744714.jpg'}, {'end': 1042.289, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1016.854, 'weight': 4, 'content': [{'end': 1023.377, 'text': "and you can address what mathematical problems are computably solvable and what aren't.", 'start': 1016.854, 'duration': 6.523}, {'end': 1033.261, 'text': "And it's a very beautiful area of mathematics, and it's a very powerful area of mathematics, and it underlies the whole sort of..", 'start': 1024.156, 'duration': 9.105}, {'end': 1039.15, 'text': "I want to say that they're principles of computing machines that we have today.", 'start': 1034.722, 'duration': 4.428}, {'end': 1042.289, 'text': "Could you say what is Gato's Incompleteness Theorem?", 'start': 1039.707, 'duration': 2.582}], 'summary': "Godel's incompleteness theorem addresses computable solvability and is a powerful area of mathematics.", 'duration': 25.435, 'max_score': 1016.854, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01016854.jpg'}], 'start': 582.125, 'title': 'Brain computation and consciousness', 'summary': 'Discusses the emergence of consciousness with increasing computational power, the role of the cerebellum in computation, its surprising complexity, and the concept of a universal turing machine and its implications on mathematical provability and computability.', 'chapters': [{'end': 669.814, 'start': 582.125, 'title': 'Brain computation and consciousness', 'summary': 'Discusses the idea that increasing computational power may naturally lead to the emergence of consciousness, highlighting the role of the cerebellum in computation and the complexity of brain organization, including the control of different body parts and sensory processing.', 'duration': 87.689, 'highlights': ['The cerebellum plays a significant role in computation, potentially encompassing most of what is considered computation.', 'The idea that increasing computational power may lead to consciousness is a prevalent belief in the artificial intelligence world.', 'The organization of the brain involves complex control of different body parts and sensory processing, extending beyond the commonly known left-right brain functions.', "The brain's organization includes the representation of different body parts through homunculi, demonstrating the intricate control and processing of sensory and motor functions."]}, {'end': 874.517, 'start': 671.075, 'title': "Cerebellum's unconscious computation", 'summary': 'Discusses the surprising complexity of the cerebellum, which has more neurons and computational power than the cerebrum, yet operates entirely unconsciously, raising questions about the relationship between computation and consciousness in the brain.', 'duration': 203.442, 'highlights': ['The cerebellum has more neurons and computational power than the cerebrum. It has been revealed that the cerebellum possesses more neurons and computational capacity than the cerebrum, contrary to previous beliefs.', 'The cerebellum controls precise motions and unconscious actions, such as those involved in playing a musical instrument or sports. The cerebellum is responsible for controlling precise motions and unconscious actions, like those seen in musicians playing instruments or athletes engaged in sports, without conscious awareness.', "The chapter questions the relationship between computation and consciousness in the brain, given the cerebellum's extensive unconscious computation. The discussion raises questions about the connection between computation and consciousness in the brain, particularly in light of the cerebellum's significant unconscious computational activity."]}, {'end': 1147.765, 'start': 874.577, 'title': 'Turing machine and universal computation', 'summary': "Discusses the concept of a universal turing machine, its application in ordinary computation, and the implications of gödel's incompleteness theorem on mathematical provability and computability.", 'duration': 273.188, 'highlights': ['The concept of a universal Turing machine and its application in ordinary computation is discussed, emphasizing the notion of computability and its impact on mathematical problems. Universal Turing machine, computability, mathematical problems', "The implications of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem on mathematical provability and computability are explored, reflecting on the limitations it poses and its relevance to consciousness. Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem, mathematical provability, consciousness", 'The comparison between the cerebellum and cerebrum in terms of computation, and the development and equivalence of different ideas of computation by Turing, Church, and Carey are outlined. Cerebellum vs cerebrum computation, Turing vs Church computation']}], 'duration': 565.64, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db0582125.jpg', 'highlights': ['The cerebellum plays a significant role in computation, potentially encompassing most of what is considered computation.', 'The idea that increasing computational power may lead to consciousness is a prevalent belief in the artificial intelligence world.', 'The organization of the brain involves complex control of different body parts and sensory processing, extending beyond the commonly known left-right brain functions.', "The brain's organization includes the representation of different body parts through homunculi, demonstrating the intricate control and processing of sensory and motor functions.", 'The cerebellum has more neurons and computational power than the cerebrum.', 'The cerebellum controls precise motions and unconscious actions, such as those involved in playing a musical instrument or sports.', "The chapter questions the relationship between computation and consciousness in the brain, given the cerebellum's extensive unconscious computation.", 'The concept of a universal Turing machine and its application in ordinary computation is discussed, emphasizing the notion of computability and its impact on mathematical problems.', "The implications of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem on mathematical provability and computability are explored, reflecting on the limitations it poses and its relevance to consciousness.", 'The comparison between the cerebellum and cerebrum in terms of computation, and the development and equivalence of different ideas of computation by Turing, Church, and Carey are outlined.']}, {'end': 1722.717, 'segs': [{'end': 1327.871, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1294.481, 'weight': 2, 'content': [{'end': 1298.224, 'text': 'Now, what Gödel shows is that if you have such a system,', 'start': 1294.481, 'duration': 3.743}, {'end': 1311.165, 'text': "then you can construct a statement of the very kind that it's supposed to look at a mathematical statement and you can see by the way it's constructed and what it means,", 'start': 1299.5, 'duration': 11.665}, {'end': 1317.028, 'text': "that it's true but not provable by the rules that you've been given.", 'start': 1311.165, 'duration': 5.863}, {'end': 1320.088, 'text': 'And it depends on your trust in the rules.', 'start': 1317.947, 'duration': 2.141}, {'end': 1327.871, 'text': 'Do you believe that the rules only give you truth? If you believe the rules only give you truth, then you believe this other statement is also true.', 'start': 1320.908, 'duration': 6.963}], 'summary': "Gödel's theorem shows some mathematical statements are true but unprovable by given rules.", 'duration': 33.39, 'max_score': 1294.481, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01294481.jpg'}, {'end': 1511.376, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1467.824, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 1474.147, 'text': "You can go see that understanding, whatever it is, and it's very hard to put your finger on it.", 'start': 1467.824, 'duration': 6.323}, {'end': 1475.247, 'text': "That's absolutely true.", 'start': 1474.347, 'duration': 0.9}, {'end': 1481.122, 'text': 'Can you try to define, or maybe dance around a definition of understanding??', 'start': 1475.799, 'duration': 5.323}, {'end': 1488.707, 'text': 'To some degree, but I often wondered about this, but there is something there which is very slippery.', 'start': 1482.023, 'duration': 6.684}, {'end': 1492.35, 'text': "It's something like standing back.", 'start': 1490.148, 'duration': 2.202}, {'end': 1498.214, 'text': "And it's also got to be something which was of value to our remote ancestors.", 'start': 1492.75, 'duration': 5.464}, {'end': 1505.295, 'text': "Because sometimes there's a cartoon, which I drew sometimes, showing you how all these..", 'start': 1499.014, 'duration': 6.281}, {'end': 1508.796, 'text': 'In the foreground, you see this mathematician just doing some mathematical theorem.', 'start': 1505.295, 'duration': 3.501}, {'end': 1511.376, 'text': "There's a little bit of a joke in that theorem, but let's not go into that.", 'start': 1508.816, 'duration': 2.56}], 'summary': 'Discussion on the elusive nature of understanding and its ancestral value.', 'duration': 43.552, 'max_score': 1467.824, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01467824.jpg'}], 'start': 1149.586, 'title': 'Understanding gödel theorem and consciousness in mathematical proof', 'summary': "Discusses the impact of gödel's theorem on mathematical logic and introduces it through a course by steen, covering turing machines and computability. it also explores the concept of understanding in mathematical proof, its potential connection to consciousness, and its role in evolutionary advantage.", 'chapters': [{'end': 1195.694, 'start': 1149.586, 'title': 'Understanding gödel theorem', 'summary': "Discusses the impact of the incompleteness theorem on mathematical logic and the introduction to it through a course by steen, covering turing machines, computability, and gödel's theorem.", 'duration': 46.108, 'highlights': ["The course by Steen provided a detailed introduction to Gödel's theorem, Turing machines, and computability, which deeply influenced the understanding of the incompleteness theorem.", "The fundamental concepts covered included Turing machines, computability, and Gödel's theorem, contributing significantly to the understanding of mathematical logic.", "The discussion also mentions the impact of Douglas Hofstadter's book on Gödel's theorem, highlighting the importance of properly phrasing the theorem for comprehension."]}, {'end': 1722.717, 'start': 1196.435, 'title': 'Understanding and consciousness in mathematical proof', 'summary': 'Discusses the concept of understanding in mathematical proof, emphasizing that it transcends formal systems and its potential connection to consciousness. it also touches on the role of understanding in evolutionary advantage, and the potential presence of consciousness in non-human species.', 'duration': 526.282, 'highlights': ["Understanding in mathematical proof transcends formal systems and is reliant on trust in the rules, as demonstrated by Gödel's theorem. Gödel's theorem illustrates that a statement can be true but not provable within a given system, highlighting the reliance on trust in the system's rules for correctness.", 'The concept of understanding is not limited by rules within a formal system, suggesting it exists outside computational procedures. The discussion explores how the quality of understanding is not confined by the rules of a formal system, indicating its existence beyond computational procedures and formal rules.', 'The potential connection between understanding and consciousness is raised, with considerations for its evolutionary advantage and its possible presence in non-human species. The conversation delves into the potential link between understanding and consciousness, including its evolutionary advantage and the examples of conscious planning observed in non-human species like African hunting dogs and elephants.']}], 'duration': 573.131, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01149586.jpg', 'highlights': ["The course by Steen provided a detailed introduction to Gödel's theorem, Turing machines, and computability, deeply influencing the understanding of the incompleteness theorem.", "Understanding in mathematical proof transcends formal systems and is reliant on trust in the rules, as demonstrated by Gödel's theorem.", 'The potential connection between understanding and consciousness is raised, with considerations for its evolutionary advantage and its possible presence in non-human species.']}, {'end': 2391.458, 'segs': [{'end': 1824.311, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1793.563, 'weight': 3, 'content': [{'end': 1799.548, 'text': "And so there is something that you might say you think about, you're doing something, and you think what the hell am I doing?", 'start': 1793.563, 'duration': 5.985}, {'end': 1804.713, 'text': "And you sort of stand back and think about what it is that's making you think in such a way.", 'start': 1800.189, 'duration': 4.524}, {'end': 1808.536, 'text': "Just take a step back outside the game you've been playing.", 'start': 1804.733, 'duration': 3.803}, {'end': 1812.579, 'text': "Yeah, you back up and you think about, you're just not playing the game anymore.", 'start': 1808.576, 'duration': 4.003}, {'end': 1815.482, 'text': "You're thinking about what the hell you're doing and playing this game.", 'start': 1812.599, 'duration': 2.883}, {'end': 1824.311, 'text': "And that's somehow, it's not a very precise description, but somehow it feels very true that that's somehow understanding.", 'start': 1816.089, 'duration': 8.222}], 'summary': 'Reflecting on actions leads to understanding outside the game.', 'duration': 30.748, 'max_score': 1793.563, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01793563.jpg'}, {'end': 1885.325, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1855.644, 'weight': 1, 'content': [{'end': 1862.247, 'text': "I've seen enough examples of the way that they behave and the evolution route is completely different.", 'start': 1855.644, 'duration': 6.603}, {'end': 1869.112, 'text': "Does it go way back to some common ancestor or did it come separately? My hope is it's something simple.", 'start': 1863.628, 'duration': 5.484}, {'end': 1878.7, 'text': "But the hard question, if there's a hardware prerequisite, we have to develop some kind of hardware mechanisms in our computers.", 'start': 1869.372, 'duration': 9.328}, {'end': 1885.325, 'text': "Like basically, as you suggest, we'll get to in a second, we kind of have to throw away the computer as we know it today.", 'start': 1879.18, 'duration': 6.145}], 'summary': 'Exploring evolutionary behavior for potential hardware changes.', 'duration': 29.681, 'max_score': 1855.644, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01855644.jpg'}, {'end': 1958.92, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1925.828, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 1927.21, 'text': "But there's no mystical.", 'start': 1925.828, 'duration': 1.382}, {'end': 1931.615, 'text': "It's not some mystical something which is not treatable by science.", 'start': 1927.71, 'duration': 3.905}, {'end': 1933.975, 'text': "That's so beautifully put, just to pause on that for a second.", 'start': 1931.755, 'duration': 2.22}, {'end': 1938.896, 'text': "You're a materialist, but you acknowledge that we don't really know what the material is.", 'start': 1934.355, 'duration': 4.541}, {'end': 1939.656, 'text': "That's right.", 'start': 1939.136, 'duration': 0.52}, {'end': 1949.398, 'text': 'I mean, I like to call myself a scientist, I suppose, but it means that, yes, well, you see, the question goes on here.', 'start': 1940.997, 'duration': 8.401}, {'end': 1958.92, 'text': 'So I began thinking okay, if consciousness or understanding is something which is not a computational process, what can it be?', 'start': 1950.558, 'duration': 8.362}], 'summary': 'The discussion explores the nature of consciousness and its relationship with science and materialism.', 'duration': 33.092, 'max_score': 1925.828, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01925828.jpg'}, {'end': 1997.65, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 1970.111, 'weight': 2, 'content': [{'end': 1982.32, 'text': 'There is a fundamental issue, which is it important or not? that computation depends upon discrete things, so using discrete elements,', 'start': 1970.111, 'duration': 12.209}, {'end': 1985.342, 'text': 'whereas the physical laws depend on the continuum.', 'start': 1982.32, 'duration': 3.022}, {'end': 1988.745, 'text': 'Now? is this something to do with it?', 'start': 1986.263, 'duration': 2.482}, {'end': 1997.65, 'text': 'Is it the fact that we use the continuum in our physics and if we model our physical system, we use discrete systems like ordinary computers?', 'start': 1989.705, 'duration': 7.945}], 'summary': 'Discrete computation vs. continuum physics: a fundamental issue to consider.', 'duration': 27.539, 'max_score': 1970.111, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01970111.jpg'}], 'start': 1722.837, 'title': 'Conscious reflection and quantum mechanics', 'summary': 'Discusses the evolutionary advantage of conscious reflection beyond natural selection and the computational nature of quantum mechanics with a focus on potential hardware prerequisites and the need for a complete theory.', 'chapters': [{'end': 1854.963, 'start': 1722.837, 'title': 'Conscious reflection and natural selection', 'summary': "Discusses the concept of conscious reflection and its potential evolutionary advantage, suggesting that it goes beyond direct association with natural selection and may offer insights into the advantage of conscious beings. it also delves into the idea of standing back and thinking about one's thought processes and behavior, highlighting the enigmatic nature of consciousness.", 'duration': 132.126, 'highlights': ['The concept of conscious reflection and its potential evolutionary advantage, suggesting that it goes beyond direct association with natural selection.', "The idea of standing back and thinking about one's thought processes and behavior, highlighting the enigmatic nature of consciousness.", "The speaker's inclination to romanticize the nature of consciousness, emphasizing that it involves more than cold, hard computation.", 'The enigmatic nature of consciousness and the difficulty in precisely describing the reflective aspect of conscious beings.']}, {'end': 2391.458, 'start': 1855.644, 'title': 'Computational processes in quantum mechanics', 'summary': 'Discusses the potential hardware prerequisites for understanding consciousness, the computational nature of quantum mechanics, and the conflict between the principle of superposition and the principle of general covariance, highlighting the need for a complete theory.', 'duration': 535.814, 'highlights': ['The computational nature of quantum mechanics is discussed, suggesting that the Schrodinger equation can be put on a computer, emphasizing the need for a complete theory to connect quantum mechanics with the observed world.', 'The conflict between the principle of superposition and the principle of general covariance is explored, highlighting the tension between the two fundamental principles and the need for a resolution.', 'The potential hardware prerequisites for understanding consciousness are mentioned, indicating the need for hardware mechanisms in computers if consciousness is not a computational process.', 'The discussion of the principle of equivalence in general relativity and its conflict with the principle of superposition in quantum mechanics is highlighted, emphasizing the fundamental tension between these principles.']}], 'duration': 668.621, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db01722837.jpg', 'highlights': ['The concept of conscious reflection and its potential evolutionary advantage, suggesting that it goes beyond direct association with natural selection.', 'The computational nature of quantum mechanics is discussed, suggesting that the Schrodinger equation can be put on a computer, emphasizing the need for a complete theory to connect quantum mechanics with the observed world.', "The idea of standing back and thinking about one's thought processes and behavior, highlighting the enigmatic nature of consciousness.", 'The conflict between the principle of superposition and the principle of general covariance is explored, highlighting the tension between the two fundamental principles and the need for a resolution.']}, {'end': 2749.463, 'segs': [{'end': 2426.212, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2393.955, 'weight': 3, 'content': [{'end': 2397.479, 'text': 'Just to backtrack for a second, just to see if we can weave a thread through it all.', 'start': 2393.955, 'duration': 3.524}, {'end': 2408.83, 'text': 'We started to think about consciousness as potentially needing some of the same, not mystical, but some of the same magic.', 'start': 2398.8, 'duration': 10.03}, {'end': 2410.312, 'text': 'You see, it is a complicated story.', 'start': 2408.85, 'duration': 1.462}, {'end': 2413.575, 'text': "People think, oh, I'm drifting away from the point or something.", 'start': 2411.393, 'duration': 2.182}, {'end': 2415.837, 'text': 'But I think it is a complicated story.', 'start': 2414.196, 'duration': 1.641}, {'end': 2420.123, 'text': "So what I'm trying to say, I mean, I try to put it in a nutshell, but it's not so easy.", 'start': 2416.738, 'duration': 3.385}, {'end': 2426.212, 'text': "I'm trying to say that whatever consciousness is, it's not a computation.", 'start': 2420.744, 'duration': 5.468}], 'summary': 'Consciousness is not a computation, a complicated story.', 'duration': 32.257, 'max_score': 2393.955, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02393955.jpg'}, {'end': 2469.897, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2442.001, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 2444.342, 'text': "Yes, well you see that's going from there, you see.", 'start': 2442.001, 'duration': 2.341}, {'end': 2446.043, 'text': 'So I say I have no idea.', 'start': 2444.683, 'duration': 1.36}, {'end': 2450.306, 'text': 'So I wrote this book through my scientific career.', 'start': 2446.744, 'duration': 3.562}, {'end': 2460.032, 'text': "I thought, you know, when I'm retired, I'll have enough time to write a sort of a popularish book, which I will explain my ideas and puzzles.", 'start': 2450.346, 'duration': 9.686}, {'end': 2469.897, 'text': 'what I like, beautiful things about physics and mathematics, and this puzzle about computability and consciousness and so on.', 'start': 2461.172, 'duration': 8.725}], 'summary': 'Scientist wrote popular book on physics and mathematics post-retirement.', 'duration': 27.896, 'max_score': 2442.001, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02442001.jpg'}, {'end': 2565.179, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2538.507, 'weight': 5, 'content': [{'end': 2546.552, 'text': "Yes, it was quite interesting because he told me he'd got Carl Sagan, I think, to write a foreword to the book, you see.", 'start': 2538.507, 'duration': 8.045}, {'end': 2550.654, 'text': "So I thought, gosh, what am I going to do? I'm not going to get anywhere unless I get somebody.", 'start': 2546.612, 'duration': 4.042}, {'end': 2553.635, 'text': "So I said, oh, I know Martin Gardner, so I wonder if he'd do it.", 'start': 2551.074, 'duration': 2.561}, {'end': 2556.117, 'text': 'So he did, and he did a very nice foreword.', 'start': 2554.436, 'duration': 1.681}, {'end': 2558.197, 'text': "So that's an incredible book.", 'start': 2556.677, 'duration': 1.52}, {'end': 2565.179, 'text': 'And some of the same people you mentioned Ed Franken, which I guess of Expert Systems fame, and Minsky.', 'start': 2558.257, 'duration': 6.922}], 'summary': 'Book features foreword by martin gardner, with mentions of ed franken and minsky.', 'duration': 26.672, 'max_score': 2538.507, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02538507.jpg'}, {'end': 2609.347, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2579.961, 'weight': 1, 'content': [{'end': 2581.442, 'text': "But that's not my perspective.", 'start': 2579.961, 'duration': 1.481}, {'end': 2582.722, 'text': 'So I thought I had to say it.', 'start': 2581.682, 'duration': 1.04}, {'end': 2587.723, 'text': "And as I was writing my book, you see, I thought, well, I don't really know anything about neurophysiology.", 'start': 2583.502, 'duration': 4.221}, {'end': 2591.384, 'text': 'What am I doing writing this book? So I started reading up about neurophysiology.', 'start': 2587.763, 'duration': 3.621}, {'end': 2597.686, 'text': "And I read up and I think, I'm trying to find out how it is that nerve signals could possibly preserve quantum coherence.", 'start': 2592.205, 'duration': 5.481}, {'end': 2602.768, 'text': 'And all I read is that the electrical signals which go along the nerves create..', 'start': 2598.406, 'duration': 4.362}, {'end': 2605.402, 'text': 'effects through the brain.', 'start': 2604.261, 'duration': 1.141}, {'end': 2607.785, 'text': "There's no chance you can isolate it.", 'start': 2605.422, 'duration': 2.363}, {'end': 2609.347, 'text': 'So this is hopeless.', 'start': 2607.805, 'duration': 1.542}], 'summary': 'The speaker found it challenging to understand neurophysiology while writing a book and felt hopeless in the process.', 'duration': 29.386, 'max_score': 2579.961, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02579961.jpg'}], 'start': 2393.955, 'title': 'Consciousness, computation, and microtubules', 'summary': "Discusses roger penrose's skepticism towards consciousness as a computation, his motivation for 'the emperor's new mind', and the significance of microtubules in neurophysiology and consciousness, leading to a shift in perspective and understanding.", 'chapters': [{'end': 2579.521, 'start': 2393.955, 'title': 'Consciousness and computation', 'summary': "Discusses roger penrose's view on consciousness and computation, highlighting his skepticism towards consciousness being reducible to a computation and his motivation for writing the book 'the emperor's new mind' in the 80s.", 'duration': 185.566, 'highlights': ['Roger Penrose emphasizes that consciousness cannot be reduced to a computation or a physical process describable by computation. Penrose rejects the idea of consciousness being a computation or a physical process that can be described by computation.', "Penrose was motivated to write 'The Emperor's New Mind' in the 80s after being skeptical of the capabilities of computers in a radio discussion between Edward Fredkin and Marvin Minsky. Penrose's skepticism towards the potential of computers, as discussed in the radio conversation, motivated him to write 'The Emperor's New Mind' in the 80s.", "The book 'The Emperor's New Mind' was written around the same time as Stephen Hawking's 'Brief History of Time' in the 80s. Penrose wrote 'The Emperor's New Mind' around the same time as Stephen Hawking's 'Brief History of Time' in the 80s."]}, {'end': 2749.463, 'start': 2579.961, 'title': 'Exploring microtubules in neuroscience', 'summary': "Explores the author's realization of the significance of microtubules in neurophysiology and consciousness, as well as their role in anesthetics, leading to a shift in perspective and understanding.", 'duration': 169.502, 'highlights': ['The significance of microtubules in neurophysiology and consciousness, as well as their crucial role in anesthetics, leading to a shift in perspective and understanding.', "The author's initial lack of knowledge about microtubules and their role in neurophysiology, prompting a shift in focus and understanding.", 'The role of microtubules in cell division, specifically their function in pulling apart chromosomes during mitosis.']}], 'duration': 355.508, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02393955.jpg', 'highlights': ['Roger Penrose rejects the idea of consciousness being a computation or a physical process describable by computation.', "Penrose's skepticism towards the potential of computers, as discussed in the radio conversation, motivated him to write 'The Emperor's New Mind' in the 80s.", "Penrose wrote 'The Emperor's New Mind' around the same time as Stephen Hawking's 'Brief History of Time' in the 80s.", 'The significance of microtubules in neurophysiology and consciousness, as well as their crucial role in anesthetics, leading to a shift in perspective and understanding.', 'The role of microtubules in cell division, specifically their function in pulling apart chromosomes during mitosis.', "The author's initial lack of knowledge about microtubules and their role in neurophysiology, prompting a shift in focus and understanding."]}, {'end': 3419.511, 'segs': [{'end': 2849.572, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2823.469, 'weight': 6, 'content': [{'end': 2832.737, 'text': 'So you got to preserve these quantum states at a level which the state reduction process comes in,', 'start': 2823.469, 'duration': 9.268}, {'end': 2839.721, 'text': "and that's where I think the non-computability comes in, And it's the measurement process in quantum mechanics.", 'start': 2832.737, 'duration': 6.984}, {'end': 2840.542, 'text': "what's going on?", 'start': 2839.721, 'duration': 0.821}, {'end': 2846.668, 'text': "So something about the measurement process and what's going on, something about the structure of the microtubules.", 'start': 2840.922, 'duration': 5.746}, {'end': 2849.572, 'text': "Your intuition says, maybe there's something here.", 'start': 2846.849, 'duration': 2.723}], 'summary': 'Preserving quantum states to avoid state reduction and non-computability in the measurement process of quantum mechanics.', 'duration': 26.103, 'max_score': 2823.469, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02823469.jpg'}, {'end': 2919.748, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2895.067, 'weight': 3, 'content': [{'end': 2902.31, 'text': 'or which is a biological philosophy of mind that postulates that consciousness originates at the quantum level, inside neurons.', 'start': 2895.067, 'duration': 7.243}, {'end': 2906.595, 'text': 'so that has to do with your search for where is it coming from.', 'start': 2902.31, 'duration': 4.285}, {'end': 2912.562, 'text': "So that's counter to the notion that consciousness might arise from the computation performed by the synapses.", 'start': 2906.695, 'duration': 5.867}, {'end': 2919.748, 'text': "Yes, I think the key point is sometimes people say, It's because it's quantum mechanical.", 'start': 2913.223, 'duration': 6.525}], 'summary': 'Consciousness originates at the quantum level inside neurons, counter to computation by synapses.', 'duration': 24.681, 'max_score': 2895.067, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02895067.jpg'}, {'end': 2989.823, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 2965.446, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 2974.193, 'text': 'And this is one of the striking things in the last several years that photosynthesis seems to be a basically quantum process,', 'start': 2965.446, 'duration': 8.747}, {'end': 2975.935, 'text': 'which is not simply chemical.', 'start': 2974.193, 'duration': 1.742}, {'end': 2980.459, 'text': "It's using quantum mechanics in a very basic way.", 'start': 2976.936, 'duration': 3.523}, {'end': 2989.823, 'text': 'So you could start saying, oh, well, with photosynthesis is based on quantum mechanics, why not behavior of neurons and things like that.', 'start': 2981.5, 'duration': 8.323}], 'summary': 'Photosynthesis is a quantum process, using quantum mechanics in a basic way.', 'duration': 24.377, 'max_score': 2965.446, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02965446.jpg'}, {'end': 3167.2, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 3138.107, 'weight': 2, 'content': [{'end': 3143.532, 'text': 'we need something which explains the collapse of the wave function.', 'start': 3138.107, 'duration': 5.425}, {'end': 3145.935, 'text': 'we need to go beyond the theory we have now.', 'start': 3143.532, 'duration': 2.403}, {'end': 3157.955, 'text': "I happen to be one of the kinds of people there's a whole group of people they're all considered to be a bit mavericks who believe that quantum mechanics needs to be modified.", 'start': 3148.03, 'duration': 9.925}, {'end': 3167.2, 'text': "There's a small minority of those people, which are already a minority, who think that the way in which it's modified has to be with gravity.", 'start': 3158.896, 'duration': 8.304}], 'summary': 'A minority group believes quantum mechanics needs modification, with some linking it to gravity.', 'duration': 29.093, 'max_score': 3138.107, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03138107.jpg'}, {'end': 3400.61, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 3375.313, 'weight': 1, 'content': [{'end': 3385.779, 'text': "It's a very clear direction where you can think of experiments which could indicate whether or not it's really microtubules which the anesthetic gases directly affect.", 'start': 3375.313, 'duration': 10.466}, {'end': 3387.07, 'text': "That's really exciting.", 'start': 3386.089, 'duration': 0.981}, {'end': 3393.92, 'text': "One of the sad things is, as far as I'm from my outside perspective, is not many people are working on this.", 'start': 3387.371, 'duration': 6.549}, {'end': 3400.61, 'text': "So there's a very, like with Stuart, it feels like there's very few people are carrying the flag forward on this.", 'start': 3394.521, 'duration': 6.089}], 'summary': 'Few researchers are investigating the direct effect of anesthetic gases on microtubules, posing an exciting yet underexplored area of study.', 'duration': 25.297, 'max_score': 3375.313, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03375313.jpg'}], 'start': 2750.684, 'title': 'Quantum coherence and consciousness in microtubules and neurons', 'summary': 'Explores the preservation of quantum coherence in symmetrical microtubule structures, orchestrated objective reduction theory, and the influence of quantum mechanics on biological systems, including ongoing experiments to demonstrate its effects.', 'chapters': [{'end': 2895.067, 'start': 2750.684, 'title': 'Quantum coherence in microtubules', 'summary': 'Discusses the potential of symmetrical microtubule structures to preserve quantum coherence, leading to the orchestrated objective reduction (orch or) theory, which aims to explain the non-computability and measurement process in quantum mechanics.', 'duration': 144.383, 'highlights': ['The symmetrical microtubule structures may preserve quantum coherence much better, potentially leading to the preservation of certain degrees of freedom without leaking into the environment.', 'The Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR) theory posits that the non-computability and the measurement process in quantum mechanics may be explained by the structure of microtubules and their ability to preserve quantum states.', 'The chapter also touches on the A-lattice and B-lattice differences which could be significant in the context of Orch OR theory.', 'The discussion explores the potential of microtubules in addressing the mystery of quantum mechanics and their role in preserving quantum states, emphasizing the importance of symmetrical structures.']}, {'end': 3419.511, 'start': 2895.067, 'title': 'Quantum consciousness in neurons', 'summary': 'Discusses the concept of consciousness originating at the quantum level inside neurons, highlighting the potential influence of quantum mechanics on biological systems, particularly in photosynthesis, and the need to modify quantum mechanics with gravity, along with ongoing experiments to demonstrate its effects.', 'duration': 524.444, 'highlights': ['The concept of consciousness originating at the quantum level inside neurons is discussed, emphasizing the potential influence of quantum mechanics on biological systems, particularly in photosynthesis.', 'The need to modify quantum mechanics with gravity is highlighted, along with the assertion that experiments are underway to demonstrate its effects.', 'The potential influence of general anesthetics on microtubules and their impact on consciousness is mentioned, emphasizing the ongoing experimental efforts to explore this relationship.']}], 'duration': 668.827, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db02750684.jpg', 'highlights': ['Symmetrical microtubule structures may preserve quantum coherence better, leading to the preservation of certain degrees of freedom without leaking into the environment.', 'Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR) theory posits that the non-computability and the measurement process in quantum mechanics may be explained by the structure of microtubules and their ability to preserve quantum states.', 'The potential influence of general anesthetics on microtubules and their impact on consciousness is mentioned, emphasizing ongoing experimental efforts to explore this relationship.', 'The concept of consciousness originating at the quantum level inside neurons is discussed, emphasizing the potential influence of quantum mechanics on biological systems, particularly in photosynthesis.', 'The need to modify quantum mechanics with gravity is highlighted, along with the assertion that experiments are underway to demonstrate its effects.', 'The discussion explores the potential of microtubules in addressing the mystery of quantum mechanics and their role in preserving quantum states, emphasizing the importance of symmetrical structures.', 'The chapter also touches on the A-lattice and B-lattice differences which could be significant in the context of Orch OR theory.']}, {'end': 3732.939, 'segs': [{'end': 3501.296, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 3473.483, 'weight': 2, 'content': [{'end': 3476.525, 'text': 'I mean, most views are computational in one form or another.', 'start': 3473.483, 'duration': 3.042}, {'end': 3488.307, 'text': "But it's not very clear, because even the IIT people who I think of them as computational, but I've heard them say no,", 'start': 3478.026, 'duration': 10.281}, {'end': 3490.008, 'text': 'consciousness is supposed to be not computational.', 'start': 3488.307, 'duration': 1.701}, {'end': 3491.649, 'text': "I say well, if it's not computational, what the hell is it?", 'start': 3490.028, 'duration': 1.621}, {'end': 3493.53, 'text': "What's going on??", 'start': 3492.83, 'duration': 0.7}, {'end': 3495.892, 'text': 'What physical processes are going on?', 'start': 3494.151, 'duration': 1.741}, {'end': 3496.893, 'text': 'which are that??', 'start': 3495.892, 'duration': 1.001}, {'end': 3501.296, 'text': 'What does it mean for something to be computational then?', 'start': 3498.994, 'duration': 2.302}], 'summary': "Debating consciousness and computation's role in physical processes.", 'duration': 27.813, 'max_score': 3473.483, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03473483.jpg'}, {'end': 3589.101, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 3566.246, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 3575.332, 'text': 'It depends on that choice which nature makes all the time when the state becomes one or the other rather than the superposition of one and the other.', 'start': 3566.246, 'duration': 9.086}, {'end': 3581.977, 'text': "And when that happens, there is what we're saying now an element of proto-consciousness takes place.", 'start': 3575.352, 'duration': 6.625}, {'end': 3589.101, 'text': 'Proto-consciousness is, roughly speaking, the building block out of which actual consciousness is constructed.', 'start': 3583.078, 'duration': 6.023}], 'summary': "Nature's choice determines proto-consciousness, the building block of actual consciousness.", 'duration': 22.855, 'max_score': 3566.246, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03566246.jpg'}], 'start': 3419.511, 'title': 'Nature of consciousness and intelligence', 'summary': 'Discusses various views on consciousness and intelligence, the lack of clear theory, and their connection, emphasizing the need for a superb theory of consciousness and intelligence.', 'chapters': [{'end': 3732.939, 'start': 3419.511, 'title': 'The nature of consciousness and intelligence', 'summary': 'Discusses the various views on consciousness and intelligence, the lack of a clear theory, and the connection between understanding, intelligence, and awareness, highlighting the need for a superb theory of consciousness and intelligence.', 'duration': 313.428, 'highlights': ['The lack of a clear view on consciousness and intelligence, with most views being computational in one form or another, poses a significant challenge. The absence of a widely accepted view on consciousness and intelligence, with most views being computational, presents a major obstacle in developing a comprehensive understanding.', 'The need for a superb theory of intelligence and consciousness is emphasized, indicating that the current understanding is not even in the tentative stage. There is a pressing need for a remarkable theory of intelligence and consciousness, as the existing understanding is considered to be far from even the tentative stage of development.', 'The connection between understanding, intelligence, and awareness is discussed, emphasizing that intelligence requires understanding, which in turn needs awareness. The discussion highlights the interrelation between understanding, intelligence, and awareness, suggesting that intelligence necessitates understanding, which, in turn, requires awareness.']}], 'duration': 313.428, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03419511.jpg', 'highlights': ['The lack of a clear view on consciousness and intelligence poses a significant challenge.', 'The need for a superb theory of intelligence and consciousness is emphasized.', 'The connection between understanding, intelligence, and awareness is discussed.']}, {'end': 5267.986, 'segs': [{'end': 3933.056, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 3908.084, 'weight': 3, 'content': [{'end': 3914.847, 'text': 'initial state, which is a very, very concentrated initial state, which seemed to be the origin of the universe, primordial atom.', 'start': 3908.084, 'duration': 6.763}, {'end': 3916.408, 'text': 'primordial atom is what he called it.', 'start': 3914.847, 'duration': 1.561}, {'end': 3918.829, 'text': 'yes, beautiful term, and then it became.', 'start': 3916.408, 'duration': 2.421}, {'end': 3924.491, 'text': 'well, fred hoyle used the term big bang in a kind of derogatory sense, just like with the schrodinger and the cats.', 'start': 3918.829, 'duration': 5.662}, {'end': 3930.114, 'text': "right, yes, it's like sort of pick got picked up on, whereas it wasn't his intention originally.", 'start': 3924.491, 'duration': 5.623}, {'end': 3933.056, 'text': 'But then the evidence piled up and piled up.', 'start': 3930.794, 'duration': 2.262}], 'summary': "The initial concentrated state led to the origin of the universe and the term 'big bang' was initially used derogatorily.", 'duration': 24.972, 'max_score': 3908.084, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03908084.jpg'}, {'end': 4583.877, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 4553.55, 'weight': 4, 'content': [{'end': 4559.031, 'text': 'There are incredibly precise clocks, atomic and nuclear clocks, unbelievably precise.', 'start': 4553.55, 'duration': 5.481}, {'end': 4565.933, 'text': 'Why are they so precise? Because of the two most famous equations of 20th century physics.', 'start': 4559.611, 'duration': 6.322}, {'end': 4569.455, 'text': "One of them is Einstein's E equals MC squared.", 'start': 4566.834, 'duration': 2.621}, {'end': 4573.676, 'text': "What's that tell us? Energy and mass are equivalent.", 'start': 4569.995, 'duration': 3.681}, {'end': 4578.054, 'text': 'The other one is even older than that, still 20th century, only just.', 'start': 4574.912, 'duration': 3.142}, {'end': 4581.856, 'text': 'Max Planck, E equals h nu.', 'start': 4578.554, 'duration': 3.302}, {'end': 4583.877, 'text': 'Nu is a frequency.', 'start': 4582.716, 'duration': 1.161}], 'summary': 'Atomic and nuclear clocks are precise due to e=mc^2 and e=hv equations.', 'duration': 30.327, 'max_score': 4553.55, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db04553550.jpg'}, {'end': 4689.158, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 4660.847, 'weight': 2, 'content': [{'end': 4664.99, 'text': "So you can scale up and you can scale down, but you mustn't change the shape.", 'start': 4660.847, 'duration': 4.143}, {'end': 4669.992, 'text': "So it's basically the same idea, but applied to space-time now.", 'start': 4666.431, 'duration': 3.561}, {'end': 4677.374, 'text': "In the very remote future, you have things which don't measure the scale, but the shape, if you like, is still there.", 'start': 4670.812, 'duration': 6.562}, {'end': 4679.675, 'text': "Now that's in the remote future.", 'start': 4678.495, 'duration': 1.18}, {'end': 4681.416, 'text': "Now I'm gonna do the exact opposite.", 'start': 4680.035, 'duration': 1.381}, {'end': 4684.196, 'text': "Now I'm gonna go way back into the Big Bang.", 'start': 4682.016, 'duration': 2.18}, {'end': 4689.158, 'text': 'Now as you get there, things get hotter and hotter, denser and denser.', 'start': 4684.697, 'duration': 4.461}], 'summary': 'Scaling up and down without changing shape in space-time, from remote future to big bang.', 'duration': 28.311, 'max_score': 4660.847, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db04660847.jpg'}, {'end': 4737.005, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 4706.882, 'weight': 1, 'content': [{'end': 4713.429, 'text': 'So my crazy idea is the Big Bang and a remote future They seem completely different.', 'start': 4706.882, 'duration': 6.547}, {'end': 4715.811, 'text': 'One is extremely dense, extremely hot.', 'start': 4713.509, 'duration': 2.302}, {'end': 4719.033, 'text': 'The other is very, very rarefied and very, very cold.', 'start': 4716.071, 'duration': 2.962}, {'end': 4723.396, 'text': 'But if you squash one down by this conformal scaling, you get the other.', 'start': 4719.733, 'duration': 3.663}, {'end': 4729.44, 'text': "So although they look and feel very different, they're really almost the same.", 'start': 4724.337, 'duration': 5.103}, {'end': 4737.005, 'text': "The remote future on the other side, I'm claiming as that, where do the photons go? They go into the next Big Bang.", 'start': 4730.401, 'duration': 6.604}], 'summary': 'Conformal scaling can show big bang and remote future are almost the same.', 'duration': 30.123, 'max_score': 4706.882, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db04706882.jpg'}, {'end': 5117.306, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 5090.832, 'weight': 0, 'content': [{'end': 5095.135, 'text': 'yeah, I think these things are tied up in ways which are, you see,', 'start': 5090.832, 'duration': 4.303}, {'end': 5103.861, 'text': 'I tend to think the mystery of consciousness is tied up with the mystery of quantum mechanics and how it fits in with the classical world.', 'start': 5095.135, 'duration': 8.726}, {'end': 5107.104, 'text': "And that's all to do with the mystery of complex numbers.", 'start': 5104.042, 'duration': 3.062}, {'end': 5117.306, 'text': 'And there are mysteries there, which look like mathematical mysteries, but they seem to have a bearing on the way the physical world operates.', 'start': 5108.519, 'duration': 8.787}], 'summary': 'The mystery of consciousness is linked to quantum mechanics and complex numbers, affecting the physical world.', 'duration': 26.474, 'max_score': 5090.832, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db05090832.jpg'}, {'end': 5163.004, 'src': 'embed', 'start': 5130.696, 'weight': 5, 'content': [{'end': 5136.36, 'text': "And then there's tragedies of Gato's incompleteness along the way that we'll have to somehow figure our ways around.", 'start': 5130.696, 'duration': 5.664}, {'end': 5141.552, 'text': 'Yeah So, Roger, it was a huge honor to talk to you.', 'start': 5136.38, 'duration': 5.172}, {'end': 5143.293, 'text': 'Thank you so much for your time today.', 'start': 5142.073, 'duration': 1.22}, {'end': 5144.334, 'text': "It's been my pleasure.", 'start': 5143.533, 'duration': 0.801}, {'end': 5144.894, 'text': 'Thank you.', 'start': 5144.514, 'duration': 0.38}, {'end': 5148.496, 'text': 'Thanks for listening to this conversation with Roger Penrose.', 'start': 5146.055, 'duration': 2.441}, {'end': 5151.418, 'text': 'And thank you to our presenting sponsor, Cash App.', 'start': 5148.936, 'duration': 2.482}, {'end': 5163.004, 'text': 'Please consider supporting this podcast by getting ExpressVPN at expressvpn.com slash lexpod and downloading Cash App and using code lexpodcast.', 'start': 5151.978, 'duration': 11.026}], 'summary': "Discussion about gato's incompleteness and expressing gratitude to roger penrose for the conversation.", 'duration': 32.308, 'max_score': 5130.696, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db05130696.jpg'}], 'start': 3733.86, 'title': 'Big bang theory, future of universe, and complex analysis', 'summary': 'Covers big bang theory, its historical context, flaws in inflation theory, future of the universe including the fate of black holes, conformal scaling in space-time, and the beauty of complex analysis in mathematics.', 'chapters': [{'end': 3944.448, 'start': 3733.86, 'title': 'Understanding the big bang theory', 'summary': 'Discusses the big bang theory, its historical context, and the concept of a primordial atom, highlighting the shift from the steady state model and the accidental discovery of the microwave background, with a mention of the gödel theorem.', 'duration': 210.588, 'highlights': ['The accidental discovery of the microwave background led to the formulation of the Big Bang theory, which marked a significant shift from the steady state model, and was initially met with resistance from prominent physicists like Einstein.', "Friedman and Lemaître independently proposed the concept of a primordial atom as the origin of the universe, leading to the term 'Big Bang' being used in a derogatory sense by Fred Hoyle before the evidence supporting the theory accumulated.", 'The chapter briefly touches on the Gödel theorem in the context of understanding perception, illustrating the complexity of grasping concepts such as perceiving colors and sounds, and raises questions about the universality of these perceptions.', 'The discussion also briefly alludes to the difficulty in understanding the perception of colors and sounds, hinting at the subjective nature of these experiences and the challenges in defining their universality across different individuals.']}, {'end': 4173.54, 'start': 3944.468, 'title': "Cosmology's biggest problem", 'summary': 'Discusses the flaws in the inflation theory, highlighting the fundamental problem of gravity being in a very low entropy state, contradicting the overall randomness of the early universe, and refuting the claim that inflation can solve this issue.', 'duration': 229.072, 'highlights': ['The problem of gravity being in a very low entropy state, while everything else was random, is emphasized as the biggest problem in cosmology, challenging the belief that inflation theory can solve it.', "The lecture challenges the concept of inflation, describing it as unable to make the universe uniform from the beginning, thus failing to address the fundamental problem of gravity's low entropy state.", 'The discussion introduces the concept of inflation, explaining the exponential expansion of the universe in a tiny fraction of a second, involving the invention of the inflaton field, challenging the rationality of this idea.', "The lecturer criticizes the inflation theory, highlighting the need to introduce inflation to make the equations work, pointing out this as a flaw that contradicts the theory's supposed ability to solve cosmological problems.", "The lecture addresses the microwave background as a key evidence, emphasizing the randomness of the spectrum as a paradox, leading to the fundamental problem of gravity's low entropy state."]}, {'end': 4611.637, 'start': 4173.837, 'title': 'Future of universe: boring, black holes, and infinity', 'summary': 'Explores the future of the universe, discussing the exponential expansion, the fate of black holes, and the concept of infinity, and how it will eventually lead to a universe devoid of even black holes and the role of photons in a cold, infinite universe.', 'duration': 437.8, 'highlights': ["The universe is undergoing exponential expansion, discovered by the observation of supernova exploding stars in the 21st century. Supernova observation in the 21st century revealed the universe's exponential expansion.", 'Black holes will eventually swallow up most of the galaxies, leading to a universe predominantly occupied by black holes. Black holes will engulf most of the galaxies, including our own, leading to a universe mostly occupied by black holes.', 'The concept of infinity is discussed in relation to photons and its role in the universe, serving as a boundary similar to the angels and devils inhabiting hyperbolic geometry as described by MC Escher. The concept of infinity is related to the role of photons, serving as a boundary similar to the angels and devils in hyperbolic geometry described by MC Escher.']}, {'end': 4920.166, 'start': 4613.502, 'title': 'Conformal scaling and the nature of space-time', 'summary': 'Explores the concept of conformal scaling in space-time, connecting the big bang and the remote future, suggesting the possibility of signals from previous aeons and discussing the implications for communication with other civilizations.', 'duration': 306.664, 'highlights': ['The concept of conformal scaling is applied to space-time, connecting the Big Bang and the remote future, highlighting the similarity between two seemingly different states. Conformal scaling in space-time, connection between the Big Bang and the remote future, similarity of seemingly different states', 'Signals from previous aeons, including those related to black hole collisions and gravitational waves, are suggested to potentially travel through to the current aeon, raising questions about the Fermi paradox and the possibility of inter-aeon communication. Signals from previous aeons, black hole collisions and gravitational waves, implications for the Fermi paradox and inter-aeon communication', 'Speculation on the SETI program, the potential for inter-aeon communication, and the limited knowledge about detecting signals from other civilizations, suggesting alternative possibilities for finding signals from civilizations that could handle global challenges. Speculation on the SETI program, inter-aeon communication possibilities, limited knowledge about detecting signals from other civilizations']}, {'end': 5267.986, 'start': 4920.166, 'title': 'The beauty of complex analysis in mathematics', 'summary': 'Discusses the beauty of complex analysis in mathematics, emphasizing the discovery of infinities of different sizes and the profound connection of complex numbers with quantum mechanics and consciousness, while contemplating the meaning of life and the mysteries of the physical world.', 'duration': 347.82, 'highlights': ['The discovery of infinities of different sizes and the profound connection of complex numbers with quantum mechanics and consciousness. Roger Penrose emphasizes the beauty of complex analysis in mathematics, highlighting the discovery of infinities of different sizes and the profound connection of complex numbers with quantum mechanics and consciousness.', "Contemplation of the meaning of life and the mysteries of the physical world. The chapter contemplates the meaning of life and the mysteries of the physical world, delving into the profound questions related to fulfillment, purpose, happiness, and the universe's existence.", 'The relationship between the mystery of consciousness, quantum mechanics, and the classical world, all tied to the mystery of complex numbers. Roger Penrose discusses the profound connection between the mystery of consciousness, quantum mechanics, and the classical world, all tied to the mystery of complex numbers, suggesting a deep interrelation between these concepts.']}], 'duration': 1534.126, 'thumbnail': 'https://coursnap.oss-ap-southeast-1.aliyuncs.com/video-capture/orMtwOz6Db0/pics/orMtwOz6Db03733860.jpg', 'highlights': ['The accidental discovery of the microwave background led to the formulation of the Big Bang theory, marking a significant shift from the steady state model.', "Friedman and Lemaître independently proposed the concept of a primordial atom as the origin of the universe, leading to the term 'Big Bang' being used in a derogatory sense by Fred Hoyle.", 'The problem of gravity being in a very low entropy state is emphasized as the biggest problem in cosmology, challenging the belief that inflation theory can solve it.', 'The universe is undergoing exponential expansion, discovered by the observation of supernova exploding stars in the 21st century.', 'The concept of conformal scaling is applied to space-time, connecting the Big Bang and the remote future, highlighting the similarity between two seemingly different states.', 'The discovery of infinities of different sizes and the profound connection of complex numbers with quantum mechanics and consciousness.']}], 'highlights': ['Roger Penrose known for fundamental contributions in various disciplines.', 'Podcast episode recorded before pandemic outbreak, emphasizing its relevance in pre-pandemic context.', 'The accidental discovery of the microwave background led to the formulation of the Big Bang theory, marking a significant shift from the steady state model.', 'The concept of conscious reflection and its potential evolutionary advantage, suggesting that it goes beyond direct association with natural selection.', 'The computational nature of quantum mechanics is discussed, suggesting that the Schrodinger equation can be put on a computer, emphasizing the need for a complete theory to connect quantum mechanics with the observed world.', 'The lack of a clear view on consciousness and intelligence poses a significant challenge.', 'The connection between understanding, intelligence, and awareness is discussed.', 'The cerebellum plays a significant role in computation, potentially encompassing most of what is considered computation.', 'The idea that increasing computational power may lead to consciousness is a prevalent belief in the artificial intelligence world.', 'The organization of the brain involves complex control of different body parts and sensory processing, extending beyond the commonly known left-right brain functions.']}